New iPad type radio, how to use when stopped?

[Jed Clampit]

Don't hold your breath

[andylobb]

Reply from Citroën... As below.
Tax No way of listening to radio except by turning ignition on or running the engine!
I guess van drivers never want this function?! 
So much for research and development. 


 "I have looked into your query and can confirm the only way for you to access the radio function through the touch screen is by having either having the ignition on or engine running, unfortunately, this cannot be disabled.
 
I have asked if this will compromise the safety or driveability of the vehicle and have been assured it won’t."

[ghost123uk]

That's terrible, so much for progress.

This will enable you to listen to the radio for up to 12 hours, with the ignition completely off...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191908050995

Just leave it plugged into a USB car charger until needed.

Yes, that is certainly a safer solution to my suggestion of messing with the wiring, bearing in mind it's such a modern car (I'm not used to such modern cars!!)

I have a very similar unit in my VW Camper van for "through the night" background listening of the BBC World Service / Radio 4.

[Oliver Mg]

This is the frustrating thing about "at a distance help". I don't own a modern one (and likely never will) but if I did, this would be something I would have to sort out pronto, and being well into electrics, I could and would. But, I don't have my hands on one, so here I'm working blind.

However, I'm guessing the actual "radio" is buried away somewhere, unlike your more usual "pull it out of the dash" earlier arrangement (where this mod is easy). If this is the case then there are likely a couple of options. Assuming you have a basic multimeter (and know how to use it) and that you can find the "radio" unit, then it should be a fairly simple case of finding which wire goes "dead" when you turn the key off. Then you would cut that wire, safely insulate the "feed" side, and on the other bit (that goes to the radio), connect a wire straight to the battery, via a fuse, say 10 Amp, close to the battery end.

Another option might be to find the fuse that feeds the radio. Then find the "feed wire" that feeds that fuse, cut that and do the same. Or, if it's a standard blade fuse, one could remove the fuse, find out (with your meter) which of the two terminals the fuse "plugs into" is live (with the ignition on of course) and, using a bit of wire with a "Lucar" spade connector attached, plug it into the other terminal (which is the one that connects to the radio unit), then, connect that to a nearby permanently live feed. Note, often fuse panels have a couple of unused terminals, which may be permanently live (use you meter) and one of those could be used. Again, you should put a fuse in that new bit of wire, an "inline" type from a motor accessory shop is fine.

One point though. I understand from what I have been told (I don't and won't own a modern fully "electronic controlled" vehicle) that on such vehicles the "brain" is a sensitive thing. Like, I have heard that if you need to jump start one, you need to follow certain procedures (rather than just simply hooking up the jump leads). So, if anything I have suggested above does owt funny to your cars "brain", please don't blame me <wink> This is just one of the reasons why I prefer earlier vehicles = I understand them !! (and don't need a dealership's computer diagnostic thing to fix them !!)

I'm working on this too (2012 diesel Berlingo) .. I want the Radio/Sound system, Cigarette lighter power socket, USB power sockets and Interior Lighting to work at night, like a regular campervan with a leisure battery.  Due to previously having no manual, (which Haynes have just issued Jan2017 and is on order from Ebay) and the complexities of computer-controlled electrics, I'm taking my time over this project. I fit one or two items at a time, ponder on any possible bad side effects and try it out for a few days/months ! So Far, no problems.  - I have found below the offside rear window a loom with a 12v (live when ignition on/engine runs) power connector under the plastic side cover which would feed a cig socket in later/higher spec vehicles.
I made a simple isolated extension loom that plugs into this little socket. This 12v feed first goes through a diode to prevent any volts, from my fiddling, feeding back into the car's computer-control system. Next is the + terminal of a 12v 22Ah golf cart battery tucked into a perfectly sized cubbyhole in the bodywork. Blocks of foam ensure the gel-battery stays fixed in position, on its side in this cubbyhole. From this battery via a 10A fused I wired an isolating switch, 12v LCD volts display, twin 5v USB outlets and a Cigarette lighter 12v socket. When the ignition/engine is on my 22Ah battery charges at the correct voltage and powers my sockets whether the engine is off or on. On the opposite side of the boot interior is another identical cubbyhole waiting for an additional battery if required. Next I need to figure out a simple changeover switch for the radio as you mentioned, but mine is planned to run the Radio/Audio system off my 22Ah battery.  To safeguard the car computer system another isolating diode may be required to feed the radio 12v from my 22Ah battery via a changeover switch. When I get the new Haynes manual this fog may clear. It may not even be possible. Wadya recon ? I may post some photos if anyone is interested.

[ghost123uk]

I reckon that's mostly good, and not too far from what I have planned for installation when it gets a bit warmer outside, ready for some summer camping etc.

Couple of points though.

If / when you golf cart battery has been run down somewhat, and the wire you mention comes "live" via the key, for the first minute or so, quite large currents will flow from the cars electrical system to the golf cart battery. I have seen 30 Amps initial surge when the leisure battery is well down on charge (say down to 10.5V). This current will simply blow your diode to bits instantly. Also, the diode will drop the charging voltage by around .6 of a volt, which will take it down to around 13.5V which is not enough. It will charge the battery, but will take a long time with the engine running to do so. IMHO, you simply don't need the diode anyway. But watch that initial high current down that relatively thin wire with no doubt a 10A fuse at the other end.

Also, from what folks have said, though I have not tried it myself, so this is 3rd party information, silly things might happen to the BSI thingy if you ("we") re-route the live feeds to the radio and it's dash mounted display unit ("MFD" apparently). Personally, especially as mine is a simple "MFD" with no touch screen, and a simple OE head unit, I might temporarily re wire the live feeds to be permanently on, and see what happens. In my mind I can't see what harm it can do, but I am no expert on these modern computerised electrical systems.

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My plan is similar, but slightly different. I have just yesterday ordered one of those "Jump starter" units. They have changed A LOT since the advent of LiPo batteries. They are very compact for the power they produce. The one I have ordered has a comprehensive list of useful features, such as 4 x usb power, a 19V output for laptop computers (I use one with a usb freeview dongle to watch TV if it's raining etc), It even has both red and white LED lamps built in. The main output is rated at 68Ah so plenty of capacity for what I ("we") will be using it for, radio, lighting and charging stuff.

The other nice thing is that "we" have a built in "split charger" system on all our Berlingos, but only suitable for my plan (but not yours I'm afraid). These jump starter packs come with a ciggy lighter type plug for re-charging, and because LiPo batteries have to have a current limited charging circuit, they have this circuit built into the unit. So, you can leave it permanently wired (or plugged) into one of the fag lighter sockets by the gear lever, and it will only "connect" and charge when the engine is running. Neat eh 

The whole unit is so compact, self contained and in a nice case (SEE HERE) that I can just have it under the seat or similar, for easy access. I will also attach a nice fused lead to it's main output to go to a small distribution unit.

[ghost123uk]

PS, I've just realised that the quoted capacity of the unit I bought, at 68.8Ah cannot be correct of course. It's typical of Chinese manufacturers to tell blatant lies about their product. It wouldn't be allowed in many countries. However, I am aware of this and I'm sure the unit will have sufficient capacity for what I want to use it for. I'm guessing it's more like 18Ah. I have plenty of experience of LiPo batteries from one of my other hobbies, which is model aircraft and helicopters.

[Oliver Mg]

I reckon that's mostly good, and not too far from what I have planned for installation when it gets a bit warmer outside, ready for some summer camping etc.

Couple of points though.

If / when you golf cart battery has been run down somewhat, and the wire you mention comes "live" via the key, for the first minute or so, quite large currents will flow from the cars electrical system to the golf cart battery. I have seen 30 Amps initial surge when the leisure battery is well down on charge (say down to 10.5V). This current will simply blow your diode to bits instantly. Also, the diode will drop the charging voltage by around .6 of a volt, which will take it down to around 13.5V which is not enough. It will charge the battery, but will take a long time with the engine running to do so. IMHO, you simply don't need the diode anyway. But watch that initial high current down that relatively thin wire with no doubt a 10A fuse at the other end.

Also, from what folks have said, though I have not tried it myself, so this is 3rd party information, silly things might happen to the BSI thingy if you ("we") re-route the live feeds to the radio and it's dash mounted display unit ("MFD" apparently). Personally, especially as mine is a simple "MFD" with no touch screen, and a simple OE head unit, I might temporarily re wire the live feeds to be permanently on, and see what happens. In my mind I can't see what harm it can do, but I am no expert on these modern computerised electrical systems.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My plan is similar, but slightly different. I have just yesterday ordered one of those "Jump starter" units. They have changed A LOT since the advent of LiPo batteries. They are very compact for the power they produce. The one I have ordered has a comprehensive list of useful features, such as 4 x usb power, a 19V output for laptop computers (I use one with a usb freeview dongle to watch TV if it's raining etc), It even has both red and white LED lamps built in. The main output is rated at 68Ah so plenty of capacity for what I ("we") will be using it for, radio, lighting and charging stuff.

The other nice thing is that "we" have a built in "split charger" system on all our Berlingos, but only suitable for my plan (but not yours I'm afraid). These jump starter packs come with a ciggy lighter type plug for re-charging, and because LiPo batteries have to have a current limited charging circuit, they have this circuit built into the unit. So, you can leave it permanently wired (or plugged) into one of the fag lighter sockets by the gear lever, and it will only "connect" and charge when the engine is running. Neat eh 

The whole unit is so compact, self contained and in a nice case (SEE HERE) that I can just have it under the seat or similar, for easy access. I will also attach a nice fused lead to it's main output to go to a small distribution unit.

Thanks for your helpful info for this rusty brain. I'll take heed and give some more thought to this whole prototype experimental project.
So Far :
I didn't considered the possible high charge current issue very well-  the diode I used is 45v 12 A !
(my LED volts indicator is my warning indicator for the low volts - high charge current issue)
I dismissed the CTEK dual charger (nearly 200quid!!) which controls the charges to a leisure battery from the car battery and/or solar panel. 
But a brainwave kicked in later- an isolating switch and current limiting device (high watt bulb?) would be so much cheaper, so the (flat) 22Ah battery would come into circuit via a bulb, when the ignition is turned on... then switch out the bulb (short circuit with a switch) after perhaps an hour. 
I was planning this in small stages to watch for such problems and modify later with things like the CTEK dual charger or your way cheaper starter pack.
At only 33quid, that maybe what I'll end up using.
I have not worked out, exactly, how quickly a laptop, Ipad, the Radio and additional LED interior lighting would drain the (nominal) 22Ah*12v battery. 264Watt hours seems to be what I have to play with.
My Ipad runs off its Apple charger at home which is 5.1v 2.1A (10Watts), a laptop is 90Watt and my LED lights about 5W. I would dismiss the laptop for in-car evening use, leaving say 20Watts for 3 hours...60Watt hours total? The Radio wattage is unknown right now, maybe 30W with volume up?
I'm guessing that the battery charged to 13v, which is what it presently charges to via the diode maybe at 11- 12volts after 3 hours ?? If I let the voltage drop further then yup- ignition on - Bang !

[ghost123uk]

So Far :
I didn't considered the possible high charge current issue very well-  the diode I used is 45v 12 A !
(my LED volts indicator is my warning indicator for the low volts - high charge current issue)

That is a fairly heft diode you have there !! Is it one of those metal stud types, designed to be bolted to a heatsink?

I dismissed the CTEK dual charger (nearly 200quid!!) which controls the charges to a leisure battery from the car battery and/or solar panel. 

Quite right, well OTT and not needed.

But a brainwave kicked in later- an isolating switch and current limiting device (high watt bulb?) would be so much cheaper, so the (flat) 22Ah battery would come into circuit via a bulb, when the ignition is turned on... then switch out the bulb (short circuit with a switch) after perhaps an hour. 

Sensible thinking, but remember, those 50W bulbs get VERY hot. The initial "inrush" current from a fully charged vehicle system, into a 22Ahr lead acid battery may well be too much for it to cope with. I would perhaps use a 10 Ohm 50W wirewound resistor (those gold coloured type ones) but it would need bolting to a substantial heatsink and using heaksink paste too. There is no need to arrange a by-pass switch however because as the two batteries voltages (quickly) get close to each other, the charging rate will reduce, hence the effect of the resistor (Ohms law) will become insignificant.

......... or your way cheaper starter pack.
At only 33quid, that maybe what I'll end up using.

I've not tried this route yet, but I will, and I reckon it should be a winner. The only thing to watch out for is that some of those starter packs seem to require the user to press a button to activate the main output. That would be no good. I will report back when I know more.

I have not worked out, exactly, how quickly a laptop, Ipad, the Radio and additional LED interior lighting would drain the (nominal) 22Ah*12v battery. 264Watt hours seems to be what I have to play with.
My Ipad runs off its Apple charger at home which is 5.1v 2.1A (10Watts), a laptop is 90Watt and my LED lights about 5W. I would dismiss the laptop for in-car evening use, leaving say 20Watts for 3 hours...60Watt hours total? The Radio wattage is unknown right now, maybe 30W with volume up?

Those figures seem about right, though the radio would only use 30W if playing "white noise" (aka hiss) at 30W. In real life, playing music off a standard car head unit (no extra amplifiers) would be more like half that (due to the nature of the quiet V loud elements of music / voice reproduction).

However, also note that if using a lead acid battery, the total rated "capacity" should, in "real life" be halved, as a safety margin, to prevent deep discharge which quickly kills them.

Also note that the initial "inrush" high current literally only lasts a minute or two. The batteries quickly, roughly equalise their voltages, and from then on the current gradually falls to more of a trickle charge

[Oliver Mg]

This is the diode I used, 10A 42V. If its genuine?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391359566122?_...EBIDX%3AIT
I could have used 4 in parallel - allowing 40A to pass safely.(11quid)

Now, I consider this may be the best cheapest option (8quid) to replace the diode, as my project stands:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00G...UTF8&psc=1
Its a proper cheapo charge controller that's designed to cope with flat battery and a stable or variable input voltage.
Later I can switch a small solar panel in circuit too.
   
Offside rear speaker shelf mods. The flash obscures the 13V readout.
   
This is my temporary testing prototype loom made up from  the Brown and Blue wires in an old mains cable.
The brown tape on the left is wrapped round the Belingo 12V cigar socket connector with the isolating diode.
The 22Ah battery is tucked in the compartment on the right with foam blocks keeping it safe from moving.
   
This is the radio in my vehicle, the most basic radio CD with aux audio input- no usb. The model number on the side is PSARCD144-74. Google will find you diagrams from the model number.
   
Pin 16 is green wire - earth.
Pin 12 pink wire, is the battery 12v - it seems I may put my changeover switch in that pink lead.

[ghost123uk]

Aye re the diode, I didn't know you could get them as big as 12A in that package, usually they're like this one

Good info and pics there, but I still maintain you don't need any diodes. I have done the camping electrics on many a VW T25 camper and never used one (or seen one fitted). What circumstances can you see where it might be needed?

Using the Solar panel charge controller in that way should work out fine I reckon. Good idea EDIT = Maybe not such a good idea, read the next post down.

Re the radio change over switch. On mine, I won't bother, I'll just wire it up so that it can be on all the time, I don't mind having to tap the off button on the radio when I have finished for the day (or night). I think you ("we") will have to re-route the +ve feed to the MFD as well though, as, on mine, if I disconnect it (as I did recently to fit new bulbs) then after a few seconds, the radio goes off !!